10.27.2005
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"no pink unicorns"
Whadya mean, no pink unicorns? There goes my worldview...
From a semi-cranky comment by a (presumed) atheist:
As for having a moral code, we believers are stuck with what our "giant father figure", the Father, gave us. It's pretty good, and seems to be what most unbelievers come around to, for the most part. You know, things like murder is bad, stealing is bad, adultery is bad, you should honor your parents, don't covet your neighbor's things.
The big question that is posed by the young man: who made the designer? Well, this is a question that's occupied more than one class in theology. We believers kind of think the answer is, He was always there.
Lesson? There are always some things beyond our ken. Unless, of course, you are one of those who think that you know everything.
| technorati tag | Christianity|
From a semi-cranky comment by a (presumed) atheist:
There is no God, no reincarnation, no soul, no Santa, no pink unicorns or what-have-you. Every bit that you look down on me for having no prescribed moral code, I look down on you for not being able to think for yourself and act morally without a giant father figure watching you. If life is too complex to have been made without a designer, then who made the designer?One point this young man misses is that just because something can't be proven does not make it false. Doesn't make it true, either, of course. Nice touch, also, lumping those pesky pink unicorns and Santa with affirmative negatives about God, reincarnation, and the soul. Just shows how gullible we Christers really are, I suppose.
As for having a moral code, we believers are stuck with what our "giant father figure", the Father, gave us. It's pretty good, and seems to be what most unbelievers come around to, for the most part. You know, things like murder is bad, stealing is bad, adultery is bad, you should honor your parents, don't covet your neighbor's things.
The big question that is posed by the young man: who made the designer? Well, this is a question that's occupied more than one class in theology. We believers kind of think the answer is, He was always there.
Lesson? There are always some things beyond our ken. Unless, of course, you are one of those who think that you know everything.
| technorati tag | Christianity|
posted by John Luke at 10:43 AM
Welcome. My name is John Luke Rich, (very) struggling Christian. The focus here is Christianity in its many varieties,
its fussing and feuding, how it impacts our lives and our society, with detours to consider it with other faiths (or lack thereof).
6 Comments:
Unapologetic Atheist: By saying that the these prohibitions are "far, far, far older ideas" than Judaism or Christianity (a concept I agree with since we all of humanity has an intrinsic idea of right and wrong), you seem to sound like you believe in an objective moral code rather than a relativist one. This seems odd for someone who does not believe in God so perhaps you could expound on this point...
Here's repeating what I said in the thread that this continues:
-Read I Sam 15:2-3
-Read Num 31:17-18
-Try to understand why some people would like to see proof these orders to kill were written by a great, loving God.
Well, my own ideas in favor of objective morality are co-opted largely from "Orthodoxy" so you will be well prepared to handle them, I suspect, if you can handle Chesterton. ...But that is an immense undertaking.
In the meantime, I will check out your blog and this is a discussion I would like to have. For now, I will agree that it can be somewhat of a false dichotomy because while I believe in objective morality, it's very different to try to comprehend the extent to which we, as humans, are able to decifer it.
I would have thought that Christians should not think they invented any moral concepts that came from God.
Speaking as an atheist, I personally have no problem with rules against murder, stealing, adultery and the like. We can all agree that those are bad things, and you don't need a belief in God to understand why that is so.
What I do have problems with, on the other hand, are rules like the ones that instruct believers to discriminate against homosexuals, deny emergency contraception to rape victims, deny euthanasia to people in incurable pain, outlaw speech and messages they don't agree with, take my tax money to fund their religious proselytizing, post exclusionary sets of religious rules in the schoolrooms and courthouses that people of different beliefs have to use too, exclude from public office people who don't share their belief in God, destroy the environment and encourage war to continue since Jesus is coming back soon anyway... you get the idea.
If religion's only role was to encourage the good behavior you mentioned, I'd feel much less inclined to speak out as an atheist. But that is not the only role it plays. Any fair-minded study of history (or current events) would lead inevitably to the conclusion that religion is a force for evil at least as often as it is a force for good. I happen to think we can get rid of the evil and keep the good.
I would just like to add one thing, and sorry if this has been already mentioned - but Christianity doesn't believe that Judaism invented these moral codes, Christianity believes that it is innately built into us and that those who don't follow it have become desensitized to that natural beast inside of us, named Guilt, who tells us when we've done something wrong.
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